WWII Italiasta

[talpa-myyrä]

terve, mun suomen kieltä ei oo vielä niin hyvää kun pitäis olla selittaman siksi käytän englantia (anteeksi)
..mutta ymmärrän ihan hyvin jos joku vastaa suomeksi

well these few crappy finds come from "Passo del Rastrello" (La Spezia, Italy) which was an important place during WWII cause it was the Partisans headquarter, there was operating especially the international brigade formed by English, American, Russian, Yugoslavian, Polish and French soldiers escaped from concentration camps, all the other brigades where formed by Italians (generally).

Nazi germans and fascists send often their troops to try to exterminate the whole restistance but it was impossible despite the winter cold of those mountains (-15 or below is quite cold for Italy) and in the end of the war Partisans were able to liberate all the nearby towns and cities even before than regular English and American troops came..

These few finds I got two weeks ago between "passo del rastrello" and "monte picchiara" are 4 bullets made in Italy so either owned by Partisans or fascists, the last bullet (the crashe one) is English so owned by some Partisan for sure, the other round object is the bottom of and english "ananas" grenade (I see they those peaces for 5 e. in the net, it was surprising..), well nothing to say about the spoon whereas the coin is not from that time but it's a common 200 Lire from 1979..

[NÄÄTÄ]

Hello!

Nice finds and scenery you have there! What is the italian law saying about metal detecting? Can you keep all the older finds and wartime finds or do you have to report them to museum or elsewhere?
Keep on writing here and give us those nice pictures from landscape and treasures

[talpa-myyrä]

hi! thanx for your reply, well, the Italian law is very strict about finds especially if very very old ones, mainly if I got it right says that to own a m.d. is not forbidden but you have to be very careful how to use it cause it should be that every find more than 50 years old should be reported to the authorities, of course if you find a coin from the 50's or 40's no one cares, usually if you also find medioeval stuff or even roman after you have reported it if is common to find and not important you re allowed to keep it, in some cases also if it is important you may keep it in "custody" following some special rules..

It is different when you find any war relict connected to weapons, actually also the detention of used bullets or that piece of grenade that I found is totally illegal and you risk to get some penalty or something like 3-6 months in jail cause in Italy there is an anti-terrorism law from the 70's which is not permitting to have any part of weapon (this comes cause in Italy during the 70s we had very radical armed communist and fascist parties and groups, it was somehow like a not declared civil war with armed street fights during demos, political kidnappings and bombs exploding all around the country on trains, banks, train station, cars and so on..)

Another important thing is that is anyhow alway forbidden to metal detect on archeological areas and areas of public interests, you cannot dig in national parks and some other places with particular restrictions..
besides whatever you find digging more than 30 cm (I'm not 100% sure if it is that much or more or less but there's a limit) whatever you find is State property..
As in Finland, if you want to detect some place; before you should check if it is owned by someone and if yes you must ask for permission..

This is everything I know.. Italy is a very weird place if we talk about laws..
mainly you can do many things but if they want you can have lot of troubles and i give you a last example:
if police stops you while detecting somewhere or they check your car and you ve the m.d. equipment with yourself they can use your "lapio" as a good excuse to come and check your home.
The official reason is that "lapio" could be considered as a weapon useful to injury someone so they can come to check your home in case you ve more weapons... but the "hidden" reason is that in this way they have an excuse to go and see legally if in your place you re hiding some antiques or old stuff which should be in a museum.. (btw often if you re onest and you report what you ve found your finds are going to rot in some fine-arts department store for ages cause museums are already too full)

with the pic I posted I broke at least 2 different rules of Italian law (detention of part of weapons which are more than 50 years old.. quite good, isn t it?)

[NÄÄTÄ]

Seems to me quite confusing, but we have to consider the political history from last decade and the rich italian pre-history and roman history, what they want to preserve. But basically the same in Finland.
I wonder, do they pay for you something, if you find for example golden miniature from Marcus Aurelius times and the state or museum wants to keep it? Is it a market price they have to pay or some payment conserning just the amount of gold? Or do they just take it? In England it seems to be, that finder gets the full market price of findings.

[talpa-myyrä]

yes, you got the point, it s confusing and it comes to me to say that maybe it s just the way it s supposed to be..
At the same time i also think that law is trying to keep low the enthusiasm of those who want to try to dig out some old stuff (and in Italy considering all the different civilizations we had..there's a LOT!) besides Italy has a long tradition of people robbing etrurian, greek and roman graves, churches, castles in ruins and so on.. there's a big business going around there (unluckily..)
anyway I m not sure if you get some money back or not if you find something valuable, checking in some forums I got that it s possible to have some money back but also that italian burocracy is as long as "some roman-age finds have been underground"...

[talpa-myyrä]

I found this in english which explains a bit and quite clearly about some points of italian law:

The 1939 Act of the custody of artistic and historic objects affords protection to all objects and coins of historical or archaeological value including coins. All objects are State property and must be reported to the Superintendency of Arts. Rewards may be offered up to 1/4 of the value.

Metal detecting is forbidden in the following areas:

Val D'AOSTA

TOSCANA

LAZIO

CALABRIA

SICILIA

Coins found minted after 1500 can be kept by the finder and 10% of their value has to be paid to the landowner.